Milwaukee Road woodchip cars

[cmstpmark]

Greetings! I am looking for any information on the 40-42’? drop-bottom gondolas that the MILW converted over the woodchip cars. The conversion was accomplished by adding 2x10”-2x12” boards on top of the side and end sills. The boards were stacked horizontally on top of each other. They were secured to stakes on the inside of the car. A reinforcing board ran on the outside of the long dimension from the lower ends to the upper center. The cars were painted red with yellow THE MILWAUKEE ROAD speed heralds on both the sides and the ends.

I am building a set of these cars out of some cheap 40’ gondolas. I need to get reporting marks and series numbers. Any information or imagery that anyone can provide will be appreciated.

Thanks,
Mark

[SP 8299]

Hi Mark,

Do you happen to know what years these cars operated (roughly) ? If so, I can do a little digging through my ORER's to get number series and other data.

[BoxcabE50]

Originally posted by SP 8299:
Do you happen to know what years these cars operated (roughly) ? If so, I can do a little digging through my ORER's to get number series and other data.The composite side gondolas came into use circa 1952. In the same year, they also removed the roofs from some rib side box cars for chip service. More of both were rebuilt for chip loading in following years.

If memory serves me well, the new all steel cars were delivered during 1969.

I just asked a friend who was a Coast Division agent/operator. What he recalls is that after those replacements arrived in 1969, most of the old composite gondolas were out of service, and stored by the early 1970's. When they came off the roster and were scrapped, I do not know.

So it looks like you have a roughly 20 year active use time frame that can be checked with your ORER's.

:D

BoxcabE50

[cmstpmark]

Dear Paul & BoxcabE50,

graemlins/notworthy.gif graemlins/yippie.gif Thank you for the replies. Any information that you can supply would be greatly appreciated. I have never seen a rib-side with a pop-top. I'll have to keep my eyes open for a photo. I have seen rib-sides with wooden posts impailed throught the door opening, used for verneer transport. Can't quite bring myself to do that to one of the MDC three cars I own. When I have 30 in the yard, I'll think about it.

I live in SE Michigan. I get out to Illinois, Wisconsin and Da' U.P once or twice a year. if there is anything out here you want a photo of, let me know. It may take a while to get to it, but I can get there. I was in Milwaukee last year. Some of the old yard remains. Few bulidings. I recognized one from a book I have. Bud's probably knocked it down by now :mad: . There were a few late 50' MILW boxcars used as tool sheds and a number of SOO and CP deisels. The one good thing was a Milwaukee snowplow still in its yellow color. A tree and security prevented a real good shot.

graemlins/clappy.gif
Now where'd I park the 265?
Mark
graemlins/097.gif

[BoxcabE50]

Hopefully you'll hear from Paul soon. I don't have much data to draw from at present. Most of my stuff is still stored away from a move. I'd be interested in what turns up, as I have ideas about doing this in N scale.

You mentioned the 265. I have daydreams that one day she'll be under steam again. What an earth shaking experience we could enjoy! 261 and 265 double headed. Wow.

:D

BoxcabE50

[SP 8299]

I intend to take a look at some of the ORER's at work tomorrow. I think we have some of the right years that would show these cars. I'll let you know if I find anything!

[LadySunshine]

Hi Mark and welcome to the Trainboard. I am a Milwaukee Nut too. My Grandfather and Uncle worked for them. Here is a link for pictures of both Locomotives and rolling stock, maybe you can find a picture of what you are seeking.

http://gelwood.railfan.net/milw/milw.html

smile.gif

[cmstpmark]

Thank you everyone! The help is appreciated. I did get a good look at one of the images I have. The car number is 93048. Build date is MS-12-53/8?. I assume that that means MILWAUKEE SHOPS December of 1953 or 1958. Capacity is 100,000. Load limit is 00. Lt WT is also 00.

Racing the 265 and 261 from Milwaukee to Chicago. Helluva commute. :D Of course. I would be sadistic and mount an Omaha Snow plow in front of each engine to greet any unwanted sojourners at grade crossings. Kiss that SUV and yer a** goodbye. Maybe paint a big Deaths head on the plow.

Mom said I had issues,
Mark.

[SP 8299]

Ok, I'm looking at an April 1967 ORER as I type. Mark, the car number you mentioned, 93048, is part of number series 93007 to 93206. The cars in the series are mixed; apparently MILW had three different versions of extensions, thus the varied listings for each sub-class. Dimensions for the cars noted as being assigned to woodchip loading are as follows:

Length - 45', 5''
Height (extreme) - 15'
4,226 cu. ft.

Length - 45', 5"
Height (extreme) - 14', 9"
4,173 cu. ft.

Length - 45', 5"
Height (extreme) - 14', 9"
4,173 cu. ft.

I'll have to get back with you on the car number breakdowns, since there are a lot to sort through. I hafta head home now; I'll try to post some more info tomorrow.

[Greg Elems]

Mark,
Sounds like an interesting car your building. They sound very similar to the SP beet gondolas I grew up watching in the Central Valley of CA. If you can, post a picture of your model, even if you don't have it completely finished.

Greg Elems

[Greg Elems]

Mark,

I was looking up some car numbers for a box car project in a WP book of mine. On the cover is a list of books offered by "Morning Sun Color Guides." On the list are two "Milwaukee Road Color Guides to Frt. & Psgr. Equip. Vol. 1 & 2." I got my WP book at the Portola RR museum, but I have seen them in hobby shops. If they are as nice as my WP book and the D&RGW book, then they are a set of books that you can't live without. Check them out. If you can't find them, I have a source that will more than likely have them, since he is a Milwaukee fan from way back.

Greg Elems

[BoxcabE50]

Originally posted by Greg Elems:
Sounds like an interesting car your building. They sound very similar to the SP beet gondolas I grew up watching in the Central Valley of CA. If you can, post a picture of your model, even if you don't have it completely finished.When I have seen photos of SP beet cars, I always thought that they were of a very similar appearance.

I'd also like to see a photo his model!

graemlins/097.gif

BoxcabE50

[Greg Elems]

I got a chance to see Volume 2 today at the hobby store of the Morning Sun book. I also got to see the SP&S book. smile.gif graemlins/wow.gif I'm not a Milwaukee fan per say but that was a nice book and your wood chip cars were in it. I may have to have an interchange train that gets chips off the Milwaukee just for those cars. They are cool and SP&S had some too. Throw in the WP wood chip cars and it boggles the mind.

Greg Elems

[ 26. July 2002, 00:52: Message edited by: Greg Elems ]

[Martyn Read]

Hi Greg, I have that SP&S book, yep they had a bunch of 40' gon based woodchip cars that lasted into BN days (most of the pics in the SP&S book are taken in early BN days, say 1971-74), theirs were a real mix, with extensions mounted on composite and steel drop-bottom gons, as well as on fixed floor gons. (Presumably these were rotary dumped, wonder how the wooden extensions stood up to that? :confused: )
There's some nice top-down shots in that book as well that are very useful for these! smile.gif

Northern Pacific had similar cars also, and IIRC they also had boxcars with the roofs removed in woodchip service as well.

Can't help a lot with the Milwaukee versions though.

One idea if you're modelling them, isn't Red Caboose doing the similar SP cars (in HO at least?)

[SP 8299]

Originally posted by Martyn Read:
(Presumably these were rotary dumped, wonder how the wooden extensions stood up to that? :confused: )

One idea if you're modelling them, isn't Red Caboose doing the similar SP cars (in HO at least?)Tight-bottom cars could be rotary dumped, but you're right, I wouldn't want to try to rotary one of those composite cars; even if they fit in the unloader, those racks already take a beating as it is! Some plants had vacuum unloaders - basically just a giant vacuum hose to suck the chips from the car! :cool: graemlins/cool.gif

And yes, Red Caboose has done the SP-style beet racks, with either plywood or board extensions. They are very nice cars...I have a couple of undecs that I've assembled and are waiting for paint and weathering.

[cmstpmark]

Thank you all for the input. I really appreciate it.

Pictures--EEEEEEEEEEEKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!
I spent the weekend going over everything on the car with a fine tooth comb. I had a bit of sloppy CA work on the stryrene to sand off(Note to self-Sam Adams and kitbashing do not mix graemlins/nono.gif ) and a few more details to install. Once I get another coat of paint on the car I'll post some shots. ;)

[BoxcabE50]

Mark-

Becoming ever more curious, can you tell us a little bit about what else you may have modeled as far as the Milwaukee Road? Other rolling stock? Locos? Do you have, or will you have a layout featuring the Milw? If so, any particular portion? Freelance?

:D

BoxcabE50

[cmstpmark]

Thanks for the questions, sorry for the delay. Actually, it’s one of those strange twists of fate things that led me to research and model the Milwaukee Road. I got my first train set on Christmas of ’75. I was 6 years old. The set was an HO Lima kit with 3 cars, a caboose and an MDC style switch engine and the ubiquitous circular rail line of infinity. It was very entertaining for several years. My good friend’s dad had a large HO layout in the basement that I was able to use. He modeled the GTW and a freelance road of his own. The amount of track and rolling stock he had was awe-inspiring. I was eventually able to build my own 4x8 oval, with a switchyard in the middle. My engine and three cars spent many a weekend going around and around. Then the MDC went poof. My friend’s dad inspected it and gave me my first lecture on proper oiling and what causes a motor magnet to split. Live and learn. Needless to say, no rolling stock moved for a while. There was a good thing that came out of this tragedy. My friend’s dad took pity on me and presented me with a wrapped box the following Christmas. It’s weight immediately told me that it was an engine of some sort. I hauled home to put the package under the tree. When Christmas morning came I opened one end to find the initials AHM staring back at me. At last, I had a quality locomotive (for 1980) to put on the track. It turned out to be an Alco C424 in Milwaukee Road colors. At the time I had no idea what an Alco or the Milwaukee Road was. More rolling stock was added over the next few years and I spent many a day on my layout, or on the Christmas extension. Then we moved and everything, except the table went into two boxes. It stayed in the boxes from 1984 until 1998.

I finally broke open the boxes around Christmas of ’98. I finally had a place of my own and Christmas tree, so a train was required. I was without a functioning caboose. My folks had store that they rented from a family that owned a hobby store adjacent to them. I stopped in the hobby store to look for a caboose and found an Athearn copula caboose in Milwaukee colors. I though it would be nice to have a matched set, engine and caboose, so I bought it. They also had a GP9 and Train master in Milwaukee colors. I didn’t buy them but it did rouse some curiosity in me as to what THE MILWAUKEE ROAD was. I went to the local library and get a few books on diesel engines (what is an ALCO?) and one on the Milwaukee Road. When I found out that the Road ran into the UP, and up into the Keewenaw, I was really interested. My family originates from up in Copper Country, and I have always been interested in researching the UP.

In the years since I have researched the CMSt.P&P. I have followed the line from Milwaukee up to Houghton and Hancock. I have photographed several of the still standing depots and storage sheds. I have poured over maps on the Internet looking for existing rail lines and am planning on visiting several of the more remote areas. I also plan on swinging through Wisconsin next month and stopping at some of the old sites. I also plan on stopping at the museums in North Freedom and Green Bay.

As far as my modeling goes, I now have to of the AHM C424’s (yeah, I know, they should be GBW but oh well), I have a P1000 C-liner set, a couple of Athearn locomotives (U-30C, FP-45, and a Geep-9, which I am kitbashing into passenger form). In steam I have a Spectrum 2-8-2 and a 4-8-4 NYC engine that I am converting into an S3 Milwaukee class. Rolling stock consists of rib sides, 50’ autocarriers and other misc. Milwaukee stock. I also have some stock from the Burlington and Great Northern. The time frame I like is from 1910-1970. I plan on modeling the line from Milwaukee to Hancock, perhaps creating my own freelance extension from Channing/Champion into Marquette, complete with an ore dock. I may actually designate certain areas as operating in certain time frames. I don’t know yet. Currently, I have an oval in my apartment, and a switch yard module I am building. Mostly I’m working on getting all of the rolling stock equipped with Kadee’s, steel wheels and proper weights. I am also improving and detailing all of the motive power and rolling stock.

Hope you enjoyed the book. I could write more, as I find the Milwaukee and other things like Fairbanks-Morse, ALCO and other lost bits of Americana fascinating. In the mega-corporate world we live in now, it's nice to look back and remember these quirky monuments to American individuality and resourcefulness. Unfortunately, as Ernie Harwell says, they're longgg goneee.

Time will make history of us all,
Mark
tongue.gif

[BoxcabE50]

Originally posted by cmstpmark:
Hope you enjoyed the book.......
<snip>
Time will make history of us all,
Mark tongue.gif Well, that was a book!!!

Actually, I read a lot that is similar to my experiences, and reasons why I'm here. graemlins/wink.gif

As far as history goes, we can definitely delay the inevitable by sharing via this forum. Keeping the Milwaukee Road alive in our minds eye. graemlins/clappy.gif

I'm looking forward to seeing some of your models, and hearing more of what you're doing!

:D

BoxcabE50

[BoxcabE50]

Mark-

Just wondering how you're coming along with those wood chip cars?

:D

BoxcabE50

[BN9900]

I read with interest that you are Studying the Milw. I live in Bellingham WA and I thought you might be interested to know that the Milwaukee did run up here in the little remote area of Whatcom County WA. If you want to know more please contact me at bn9900@yahoo.com I would love to talk to you about it.

[cmstpmark]

Rumors of my demise are greatly exagerated.

Sorry for the delay, I finally took a long needed vacation and have been out of the office since the end of August. I spent the weeks previous to that closing out business problems and packing. Needless to say, I didn't have time to write.

The vacation took me through the western UP (Upper Peninsula of Michigan) and through Wisconsin. Part of the trip was a hiking expidition, but the rest of the trip was strictly going to various railroad museums and touring old Muilwaukee Road towns. Ten days of total train geekery, can you tell I'm not married? I'll report on the trip later and hopefully have some images to share.

Boxcab, thanks for the note. I am just putting the quasi finishing touches on the woodchip car and hopefully can get in this weekend to take some photos and post them.

graemlins/097.gif
I'll be back..
Mark

[BoxcabE50]

Vacation??? Please elaborate. I don't understand. :D

Hope you'll soon have time to work on these. I'm looking forward to hearing more. Or perhaps seeing a photo! graemlins/wink.gif The "indoor hobby season" is soon starting, so the car shops may be humming and turning out a fleet.

:D

BoxcabE50

[cmstpmark]

Dear Boxcab,

I am shooting the little bugger tonight. if I can figure out how to post the images they should be here tomorrow. I am awaiting my film from the lab. If I have some good images I will also post those as time permits.

Dear BN9900,

Thank you for your kind offer. Unfortunately, both my web access and email is through my employer. I can get away with going on the web for brief periods, but personal email is kinda verbotten. this is the best place for me to communicate, currently.

Thanks,
Mark

[BoxcabE50]

Originally posted by cmstpmark:
I am shooting the little bugger tonight. if I can figure out how to post the images they should be here tomorrow. I am awaiting my film from the lab. If I have some good images I will also post those as time permits.Neat! Am looking forward to seeing this project! Our Trainboard.com Administrators are working hard at setting up a photo host. It's going to be great!

:D

BoxcabE50

[cmstpmark]

graemlins/clappy.gif graemlins/clappy.gif graemlins/clappy.gif

I have images. I just have to figure out how to put them here.

Mark

[Martyn Read]

Originally posted by cmstpmark:

I have images. I just have to figure out how to put them here.
If it will help, and if you can get the file size down under 100k an image I can host them for you if you like, let me know, or just email them to me & I will get them posted here for you.

All the best.

[ 02. October 2002, 18:06: Message edited by: Martyn Read ]

[cmstpmark]

Dear Martyn,

Thank you for the offer. Unfortunately, the camera I use at work is a Canon D60. Even on med/low res the file size is over 600K. Trying to reduce the file size looses the detail. I'll be patient and wait for the site improvements. I'll have other images I'll want to post so it makes sense to set up a phot account once the system is up.

Gleefully chucking a spanner whilst under the bonnet of my MG,

Mark

[cmstpmark]

I applied for my Rail Images account today. I should have images up next week.

Mark

[Colonel]

Originally posted by cmstpmark:
I applied for my Rail Images account today. I should have images up next week.

Mark By the time you wake in the morning your account would have been activated :D . Look forward to seeing your pics.

[BoxcabE50]

Originally posted by cmstpmark:
I applied for my Rail Images account today. I should have images up next week.
Sounds great. I'm always ready for some Milwaukee Road modeling inspiration!

graemlins/097.gif

Boxcab E50