Favorite and hated locomotives...

[tunnel88]

Us railfans have our favorites but we don't operate em, so i'm guessing the guys who drive have some different opinions...

Engineers, let's hear it-

http://www.trainboard.com/biggrin.gif

[Mopac3092]

well i'll be the first i guess. i know i'm gonna get some flak but i hate the dash9's. where i run there is alot of switching and local work and engines that don't load fast don't cut it very well here as far as kicking cars. my fav has to be the sd60's, all the power in the world and loads very quick. basically any emd is better than a ge. sd40's are good too but they are starting to wear out and need replaced here on the nazi southern.

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fly with route of the eagles.rock n roll all night and railroad everyday!

[Greg Elems]

One of my favorite engines to switch with were the ex-WP GP35's, till they stopped fixing them. Once they got rid of them the GP40 became my engine of choice. When we had the worn out GP38-2's or GP15's the wheel slip and lack of braking power made them undesirable. Now, I have switched in the yard one night, with an SD60 and I must say "COOL." As stated before, GE's stink, even the B23-7's. As to over the road power the SD40-2's were my prefered power. The SD60's would be next.

[watash]

I had more experience with a 1902 Porter 2-6-0 so I guess it should be my favorite. With steam up, if you pull the throttle, man you are went! (That's quicker than gone!) Unlike a diesel, you have full horse power whether the throttle is just cracked, or wide open. It takes rpm to get horse power with a diesel. In fact, if you popped the throttle wide open on a steamer, it would heat up the drivers red hot before it could gain any momentum. The engine doesn't seem to mind if it is coupled to cars or not. Slipping the drivers is wasted money, same as with a diesel.

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Watash

[Rappannahock Terminal]

Who actually "hates" a locomotive?! http://www.trainboard.com/wink.gif

Paul

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Paul Van Herwegen
Rappannahock Terminal Railway

[Mopac3092]

well i HATE the ns ex-cr gp15's. for some reason the ns thinks that this is road power and not local or switch engines. these engines have so abused and used that they can barely pull 15 cars on flat ground.

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fly with route of the eagles.rock n roll all night and railroad everyday!

[throttlejock]

In my freight years. The worst were U-25's followed by most all Ge's. The EMD's were all pretty good. Each had their own little problems. Like the gp-15 being to lite the gp-35 having a problem with transition, Gp and sd 40's probably the best. Loved sd-45's for power but again transition problems and boy would they rock when you hit a jointed siding at 20mph you would figure it was just going to roll over.
Now as far as passenger units. Can't say about any east coast units. But in order from worst to first out west here. worst-F40 then Dash 8's then F59's and can't beleive I'm saying this but the Genises is tops so far. yeah it has it faults but it has the best ride.

[Greg Elems]

The ex-MP GP15's were ridden hard, put away wet and slapped dry. I don't know about the ex-CNW GP15's, but CNW was wringing out all they could from their fleet to survive. Speaking of bounce, the UP SD40-2s would develope lateral bounce at higher speeds. UP would wait till a major shopping to replace the worn out truck components, which would solve the lateral sway problem. I found that at higher speeds some of the GP40-2's have a bounce that reminds me of those toys with egg shaped wheels.

[tunnel88]

Wow, great 'inside' info, keep it coming! http://www.trainboard.com/smile.gif

[NSBrakeman]

I don't hate any locomotive, but the GP series of locomotives all seem to have more swaying than any SD. This was due to the fact that the truck centers were almost identical to the length of rail, causing it to sway between joints...like a ship! I'll still take a GP, but my favorite locomotive is the SD40. Easy to board, run, and enough power for what we need them for. Not for switching in sidings with light rail, non-existant ties, and bad spikes because they literally pull up the spikes along with the rail. For switching, I like the ex-CNW UP GP15s no matter what anyone says! Small, not super fast, and give a nice ride when they're freshly shopped. After all, locomotives aren't supposed to run like European sports cars-we're talkin railroadin' with DIESEL AND STEEL HERE!! I think I get too excited.....
Dave

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NS "We need more SD40s!!!" Brakeman

[This message has been edited by NSBrakeman (edited 03 October 2000).]

[ChrisDante]

Got a question for you engineers; What does "transition" and "loading" or "load up" mean in relation to a locomotive?
Maybe someone could explain how a diesel works? ie you just don't climb into the cab and move the throttle to run 3 or so. Right?

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When in doubt, empty your magazine.
Member #33

[watash]

I had one short "Get Acquainted" ride in a War Bonnet a long time ago, so I wont even get into this! Ha. Do tell us more about the progress made on today's deezuls. Some sound pretty good, some about as suspected by old hoggers. I don't understand how one SD90 is supposed to equal one 2-8-8-4 Yellowstone ? The '90 doesn't have as many wheels, how can it have the adhesion and tractive effort?

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Watash

[throttlejock]

Well Chris to give you a short maybe example would be to liken transition maybe to a cars transmission. you start in low gear and the faster you go you have to change gears. The older first generation units did the same start low and then they would make transition to a higher running speed or gearing and let's just say that you hoped they didn't all make transition at the same time because some of the units felt like you had been rear ended at 20 mph when they droped their load and then kicked it up a notch.
This is what I liken it to. I would have to dig deep in my old railroad books for the real exact mechanical reason.

[ChrisDante]

Ah throttlejock, you've opened up another can of worms; What does it mean "dropped their load"(don't get funny here!)?

Does the engineer have to manually "transition" or is that purely electrical?

Does "transition" only happen in electrics and diesel/electrics?

Being a steamer, I really don't understand the nuiances of diesel operation. The same might be said of diesel drivers vs. steam drivers.

Thanks for the help!

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When in doubt, empty your magazine.
Member #33

[Harron]

Chris, it's kind of like an automatic stick shift. No clutch needed, when you go from notch 5 to 6, the engines move from one gear to the next, so they actually stop pulling for the moment until the next gear is engaged. If they all "drop their load" (same as pushing the clutch in) at the same time, you get a hesitation, just like in a car.

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Corey Lynch
Pres - Rensselaer Model RR Society
NEB&W RR
http://www.rpi.edu/~lynchc/Railfanning/railfanning.htm - My Site
http://www.union.rpi.edu/railroad/ - NEB&W

[watash]

I understand about dropping the load. Its like we would top a grade and start down the other side. We could expect the cars to 'bunch' and give us a good 'kick' if we didn't handle them correctly. And if we were up to speed, and suddenly shut the throttle (Let off on the gas) all the cars would coast forward and push us. When we had a long string of cars, we sometimes had to back up slowly to 'bunch' the cars, (take the slack out of each coupler) and apply train brakes until stopped. Inorder to start a heavy consist, we would then go foreward while slowly letting off the brakes on the cars, so the slack would allow us to not have to overcome the total inertia , only one car at a time. The engine could be traveling as much as fifteen miles an hour when the slack came out of the caboose coupler that is still sitting still! Think about what happens to a conductor or brakeman who is not sitting down facing the engine with his head braced against the rear wall of that caboose! Most of us tried to hold the speed down, but there were some who didn't care, and hurt people.
I always thought the diesels had a ride like a car. I can see the 'hunting' we had that on some six drives, but the track was not glass smooth like you have it today. Even on the 8 drives we were like on one end of a teeter-totter board! It would sometimes send you up in the air, slip to one side and could get funny trying to hold on, watch the sight glass, scowl at the fireman, reach the valve knobs, and spit coal grit out all at the same time. Ha. You guys have got it soft! Even air conditioning! Lord love a duck, you should pay them to let you enjoy those motorized circus cars! http://www.trainboard.com/biggrin.gif Ain't that right Chris? Hee Hee snicker

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Watash

[This message has been edited by watash (edited 05 October 2000).]

[ChrisDante]

Probably what I like most about this board is how much you can learn if you ask the questions. Throttlejock, Rule 281, Watash and all of you are a wealth of information and it's lots of fun hearing(its funny but I wrote hearing rather than reading, its as if we were all sitting around lifting a few long necks and having a good time) these great "war stories"

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When in doubt, empty your magazine.
Member #33

[watash]

Talking about long necks, take a look on Steam Railroading and Railfanning forum of an old girl I put up for your pleasure. She ought to bring back some fond memories to you Chris, Ha? How would you like to keep her pressure up? Now that was a water glass you had better keep both eyes on for sure!

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Watash

[ed pinkley]

i will have to say the sd70 series is my favorite locomotive.man they can pulltheir guts out and ask for more.i would have to say that anything not painted up in black and white and wearing a horse/packmule on the front of it is second.

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ed pinkley home of the pinkley taurus

[watash]

Ed, the SD70 you describe sounds like you got it mixed up with that Mustang you sold last week! http://www.trainboard.com/biggrin.gif Just kidding, Watash.

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Watash

[NSBrakeman]

Ed Pinkley-
Don't you think those black and white engines with the horses on the front a little smelly in the summer? I've ran older NS equipment before and they seem to lack toilets and management seems to think that plastic bags are well liked by crews. Or because this is a relatively new unit, did NS finally decide that engineers disliked the ripe-smelling cabs and add a small pot at least?! Just checking, and does NS still have the uncomfortable "toad-stool" seats? See ya later!

Dave

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NS "We need more SD40s!!!" Brakeman

[ed pinkley]

we are moving up in the world on the good ole ns(or just getting ready for a takover hopefully).we now are getting toilets like the other railroads that pump or use air to flush em.the women were getting mad having to use the old think chair and them putting it in a bucket until the end of a trip.and on the ns that is usually 14 to 15 hrs.we get lots of sitting time on those 100 degree days in the sidings.and yeah the new toilets have that same 10 year old tinkle or i had mexican last night and am now flushing out my system at work fragrance that for some reason the perfume and mirror scent for your car people just can't reproduce.writing this makes me remember that i need to check my two boys diapers for a surprise.gotta go........man that stinks.......

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ed pinkley home of the pinkley taurus

[Mopac3092]

yeah we stil got the toadstool seats on em. they are getting newer seats as the old ones get thrown out the windows and the gonrail guys tear em up. as for the bag or the toilet i kinda prefer the bag due to the ns not having the facilities to clean the "super poopers" at many locations. just a hint, on the vacusucs open the valve outside the cab and then hit the flush button on the inside and it cleans em out, but they still smell the same. the sd70's are nice but the wheelslip is enough to drive you nuts. i cant wait see our new 70m's but still no air conditioning.pinkley you never climb on an engine let alone ever work anymore, just kidding.

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fly with route of the eagles.rock n roll all night and railroad everyday!

[watash]

At least we had a roaring fire to throw ours into! We also had the choice of mooning the countryside. It didn't take long for the newbies to learn to face the rear at speed either! http://www.trainboard.com/biggrin.gif

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Watash

[NSBrakeman]

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who works for the CP or CN up in Canada. But for anyone in the states, how do you like the CP/CN locomotives with hot-plates and air-ride seats with all the other goodies? I've heard some guy talking about them, and I've never got the chance to run one so I was just looking for some opinions. I think the engines that have these are in the MAC and I series. Thanks a lot for the information!

Dave

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NS "We need more SD40s!!!" Brakeman

[This message has been edited by NSBrakeman (edited 09 October 2000).]

[Rule 281]

Best and worst? Depends on what you're up to. Anything that doesn't look like a sewage treatment plant or landfill explosion in the cab and gets through it's daily inspection without getting crippled is a plus.
A couple of GP38s or an SD40-2 is fun to switch with, nice quick power and good kickers as long as you don't have hold of 60 or 70 cars. I can even stand the high hoods for that.
Road power is tougher choice. Dash 9s will pull like demons if everything is working but computer glitches are way too common and like all GEs, they don't load smoothly. Also, the NS cab layout is awful. Screens are hard to read and control lights are too bright at night and cause lots of distracting reflections, and if you're not overly tall (like me) nothing seems to be in the right place.
SD's of almost any kind are usually nicer riders, with lots of predictable power and a better cab layout, but they tend to be a little slippery when they're really working.(not including AC units)
Why none of the above have a smooth, flat spot for your vast assortment of paperwork is still beyond me.
The worst for me would be a GE "B anynumber-7". Cramped, smokey, smelly, cold, slow loading, hard riding, crew smashers is putting it nicely. I've bounced 200 miles in some of those monsters and thought I'd never get my eyes to focus again. On jointed rail, you feel like you're going to get weeds on your mirrors they rock so far over but at least after the first 50 miles or so your head gets numb to banging off the window.
In reality, most everything has it's good and bad points so it all comes down to personal preference, the work you're doing and trying to wring the best out of the tools of the trade.

[Big Al]

CP units all have hot plates and refrigerators, even the GP9s and smaller road power. I've heard that CN units have microwaves, that would be even nicer.
I've only had one air ride seat on the D&H so far, not much better than some seats, better than others.
Most comfortable units are NS wide cab GE's with standard control stand, plenty of legroom for 6'3" me. Still typical GE unreliable loading. The NS runthru trains usually get decent power, but the previously mentioned toilet fragrance is noticeable.
Most impressive unit has to be the SD90s that Vermont Railway leased. Totally awesome engines, I took them to Montreal when VRS returned them. Of course they are new and a far cry from the CP tired SD40/40-2 fleet I usually run.

[watash]

Rule 281, you have very closely described an old 2-6-0 out in the woods on short line track! Rides same way, like a day on a roller-coaster. Ha. Our toilet routine was, get a little coal in the shovel, do the job, then throw it in the firebox! Some threw it out along the right of way! Either way, don't do it in town! Ha.

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Watash

[Rule 281]

Hey Watash
That reminds me of a story...stay tuned on the People thread. Gotta go to work for now.

[ChrisDante]

Hey Watash, just caught that shot of your blind date. BTW how were those brutes fired? People live in trailers that are smaller than the firebox. How many sets of injectors were there? Did they have mechanical reverse or powered? How many tons of coal per mile did they use?

Enough questions for now.

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When in doubt, empty your magazine.
Member #33

[watash]

Well Chris, Most of these engines were outshopped several times, so things changed. I have heard these engines refered to as "Mastodons", but the 4-8-0 12 wheeler was first named a Mastodon by the Centeral Pacific RR in 1882. This engine was one of several designed and built by Baldwin about 1910 with 26" x 40" cylinders for hand fed firing. It was sleeved to 26 x 32 about 1912 and fitted with one of the first mechanical stokers. Some of these engines were fitted with Elesco feedwater heaters, like the 600 class Texas & Pacific 2-10-4's. Some had twin air punps on the left side, some were mounted up on the smoke box front as shown. This engine probably started out with an order for the B&O, or DM&IR class M, or Western Pacific class 20, or Norfolk & Western. Then it found its way to the Chesapeake & Ohio, and from there to the F,R&P. The engines had 57" dia. drivers and weighed 494,450 pounds. There was 444,650 pounds weight on the driving wheels, 17,000 pounds on the front truck, and 32,360 on the rear truck. It was fitted with a superheater in 1916 with 2480 sq.ft.area. The boiler operated at 200 psi and had 5,535 sq.ft. evaporative surface, and the grate area was only 84 sq.ft. The engine could generate 110,000 tractive force. The tender could hold 9,000 gallons water, and 21 tons of coal. Early engines were equipped with a single injector, later with two. The coal usage per mile depended upon the grade, load, and how the engine was performing. You may remember engineers who would work you to death and others who would set the Johnson Bar into "the old Company Notch" and be good to you! My guess would be somewhere between a little over a half to a ton of coal per mile, based on the 30 to 35 mile spacing of coal tipples. Also, it was common to top off the coal when stopping for water. These were heavy haulers, not race horses, so I have to estimate because I don't have any company figures to go by on these older engines. The earlyest test engine was designed hand reversed, but all production was run with powered reverse gear. The engine brakes would not apply and stop a coasting engine at slow "walking speed" quickly enough to 'spot it' under a coal tipple or water spout, so most engineers would shove the throttle closed, running on expansion, then shove the Johnson Bar to center the valves and give a tad of steam to stop on the 'dime'. The tad of steam would allow correction if required. then the brakes would have applied full on to hold the engine still, so the throttle would be closed, and the pet cocks opened to relieve cylinder pressure, and blow out condensed water. Huge anchor chains were thrown around a driver as a wheel chock for safety. If the fires are dropped, or the engine is left alone for awhile, hot brakes can cool off, steam pressure can bleed off, and then you could have a 500,000 pound engine slowly rolling down a track with no one aboard! HOO BOY! That has happened. One rolled off into the turntable pit! You had a choice of colors of these engines, Factory Black, or Road Grime! http://www.trainboard.com/biggrin.gif

[ 27 February 2001: Message edited by: watash ]

[watash]

Well I guess no one else has a favorite or hated engine, so I'll ask a question and see who is out there. AND I WANT YOUR FINAL ANSWER!!

Any one remember "Old Maud"? or why she was named that?

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Watash

[wt&c]

BAD: Norfolk Southern's GP60's Beautiful, High noses, But you can't see much, all you can see is 2 feet out of the window. Also, NS's I dea of riunning enines bacward, you can't see if your running on rails or on cow patties. What have they done?? If noefolk southern want's crew saftey, why didn't they git the wide cab version of the GP60s?? M's I believe,,...

Best: CSX's SD70MAC's, smooth, comfortable, pickup great, pull an easy 80 loaded coal hoppers with about 10 or so "skippers" like a 300-hp dragster pulling 15 popcans http://www.trainboard.com/biggrin.gif.

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Appalachian & Atlantic Model Railroad (http://www.angelfire.com/wv/appalachianatlantic/images/theappalachian&atlantic.html)

"QUALITY at WORK with SAFTEY in MIND"

[Mopac3092]

ns gp60's? whats wrong with them, i love em. you could pull anything with them except on wet rail, slip like crazy then. i hate running any ge long hood lead. man talk about carbon monoxide poisoning.

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fly with route of the eagles.rock n roll all night and railroad everyday!

[ed pinkley]

what railroad do you work for wt&c?i have to strongly agree with mopac on the gp60's,one of the strongest geeps made in my book.and as for the rest it is still the sd70 series.they always are there to give more than enough power when needed.

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ed pinkley home of the pinkley taurus

[Davecn5623]

Favorite CN Power:
1.They all have hotplates and microwaves .
2.SD 70/75's CN 5600 - 5700 , alot of horsepower , whisper cabs , makes train handling ALOT easier .
3.Any CN Power without desktop controls .

Least Favorite CN power are the desktops , 2400's low 2500's 5400's 5500's . No leg room , place to put my size 13 boots http://www.trainboard.com/biggrin.gif

UP power is junk IMO , smelly tiolets ect...

CP power I like somewhat .

[nbrr2000]

Just a small question. Do you "notch up" on a GE loco ? Or is it only on the EMD's. http://www.trainboard.com/smile.gif

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Hunter
CSX and HO Scale
The Newark Branch RR
Ship it the good 'ole way, BY RAIL
Member #21 of NARA

The Newark Branch Railroad (http://www.nbrr.77th.com)

trainboy2001@hotmail.com

[Davecn5623]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nbrr2000:
Just a small question. Do you "notch up" on a GE loco ? Or is it only on the EMD's. http://www.trainboard.com/smile.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>When in doubt , throttle out http://www.trainboard.com/biggrin.gif

[Benny]

Hey guys

Just found a great Pic. For all of you F-unit Lubbers out there, get ready to wince! :eek: However, I always thought of these as too lacking...the ultimate box. :D
http://gelwood.railfan.net/other/atsf/atsf-wrk-a.jpg
http://gelwood.railfan.net/other/atsf/atsf-wrk-b.jpg

Don't know how this will work.

[Big Al]

GE locomotives have notches, some have eight, some early units like the U25B have 16.

[trainbooks@hotmail.com]

Favorite locomotive (from the 1980's):
GP and SD40's. Where I worked, this was as good as it got. Now look at the list of garbage that caused us to appreciate 40's so much:
Hated locomotives (from same era): We were actually expected to get our trains over the road with GP20's (ancient CBQ relics), and GP30's. I know that these models were, at one time, very prestigious, but that was back when horses had three toes. In 1983, they were good for putting you on overtime or going dead. From the looks of other replies, the GP15 is a recurring nightmare; I agree. The SLSF units didn't have dynamics and the hostlers would, without fail, put them in the lead. And now my Ode to Godforsaken GP35 Torpedoboats of the SLSF which were kept around a little too long. Here is a radio conversation between a switchman and the engineer trying to get some work done:
switchman: "give me a pin"
wait...wait...wait ...wait (usually 10 seconds after coming out on the throttle)
"that'll do. A-Head to clear"
wait...wait...wait...wait........
"that's good. (then the switch is turned) "OK, back up 5 to a joint"
wait...wait...wait...wait........
you finally come to a joint and the pins don't fall. "They didn't make...go A-Head 1 car"
wait...wait...wait...wait....
You go in and open knuckles for another try.
"OK, back up 1 to a joint"
wait...wait...wait...wait....
You make the joint and you're ready to pull.
"OK, mainline"
wait...wait...wait...wait....

You get the idea. Try doing that for eight hours.

[CP&E 3207]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ed pinkley:
what railroad do you work for wt&c?\<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Chessie from 1979and into CSX 1995 got out and work for WVRA.love those sd38s !!

[E&NRailway]

I've talked with some engineers on the Esquimalt and Nanaimo Railway who say their favorite Motive Power are the EMD's. The E&N has an all EMD roster, four GP38's(3809, 3870, 3876, and 3877(3876 and 3877 are ex-NS and 3809 and 3870 are ex-Conrail) an ex-Conrail GP10 numbered 1001, and an ex-BN GP20 numbered 2099. The crews prefer the Conrail GP38's over the ex-NS GP38's because of the better visability, and toilets. smile.gif