BAD NEWS!

[Maxwell Plant]

The BNSF, CN-IC merger is off. Official statement can be found here: http://www.bnsf.com/

To me, this really sucks! http://www.trainboard.com/mad.gif

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RAILROADING-TO-THE-MAX!
Brent Tidaback, Member #234 and a N-Scaler to boot!

[This message has been edited by Maxwell Plant (edited 21 July 2000).]

[Gats]

A sensible move!
Now all we need is to get the SF out of BN and we're back in business. http://www.trainboard.com/wink.gif

Gary.
Bigger is not necessarily better!

[Alan]

I agree Gary, we have had quite enough mergers! Time to let things settle down, and get problems sorted out.

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Alan

The perfect combination - BNSF and N Scale!

www.ac-models.com (http://www.ac-models.com)
Andersley Western Railroad (http://Andersley.homestead.com)
Alan's American Gallery (http://galleryusarail_tehcaj.homestead.com)
Alan's European Gallery (http://eurogallery.homestead.com)
Alan's British Steam Gallery (http://britishsteamgallery.homestead.com)

[Maxwell Plant]

What "problems" are BNSF and CN-IC having? NONE! They have taken over traffic from NS and UP that they can't handle. Mitsubishi Motors (Normal, IL.) used to be handled by NS and they have since gone to BNSF exclusively! NS only takes the train from Normal to Peoria, IL. and BNSF takes it from there. NS can't move a train until it has 100 cars. Some trains sit in Decatur, IL. for DAYS on end. No gentleman, BNSF and CN-IC are not the problem with American Railroading, it's everyone else. This merger SHOULD have happened. But how can you fight Uncle Sam's favorite child, Union Pacific. If they wanted to merge with someone, it probably would of happened. This whole mess REEKS of the BORG being unhappy.

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RAILROADING-TO-THE-MAX!
Brent Tidaback, Member #234 and a N-Scaler to boot!

[BC Rail King]

Grea t news, and bad news.

The BNSF-CNR merger was certainly one of interest to me. They are 2 totally different companies, that 2 years ago I wouldn't even consider them merging.

From a railfans point of view, there is one big difference in the motive power department

BN basically started the AC revolution, but still, CNR continues to frown agon the technoligy. Maint staff feal the same way.

In terms of Canada, I could see shipments getting too the states way faster, and that equals a GOOD THING!

Do I see a melt down occuring like UP-SP? No, considering alot of the track they own is already shared, and they would just consolidate a few trains. Most of BNSFs lines in Canada are very important for CNR to run on, and CNRs yard in Van. is now the one BNSF uses.

I still wonder whether I want/wanted the 2 comps. to merge.

Happy RRing!!

Dane N. http://www.trainboard.com/wink.gif

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BC Rail King
BCRailKing@Canada.com

InternationalRegion@tamr.org for TAMR info.
Dane_Nicholson@tamr.org
http://www.tamr.org

[bnfan99]

brent where are you getting all of your info from?you really need to check it out further.the 100 car minimum has pretty much been lifted recently,and as far as i'm aware the ns is still solely shipping the auto plant in bloomington if not the 132 car lenghts of d45 that were from bloomington was a figment of my immagination this evening.the cn/ic is still having some problems and the bnsf has there share also.all railroads do.as for the merger once again i will state that the other railroads were not wanting this to happen due to a monopoly happening.the ns was one of the opposers along with from what i here the up.and a few shortlines.the kcs was for it because there business would pick up from the deal.but anyway that is what i have for info right now. if i hear something else i will let ya know.

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those who know me know my sense of humor,dont take me seriously.
bnfan99

[bnfan99]

one other thing brent.it really sounds like the stb is the one who told them no not the other railroads.it sounds like it didn't get that far into the process.

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those who know me know my sense of humor,dont take me seriously.
bnfan99

[tunnel88]

I don't know if this was bad news or not... Oh well i like BNSF just the way it is!

[Gats]

The STB has a 15 month moritorium on new RR mergers, amongst other things, whilst it re-organises itself. This came into being before the BNSF/CN merger was openly mentioned.
Calling off the merger appears to be a case of taking their ball and going home, or as we so eloquently put it Downunder - spitting the dummy!
If they wait another 12 months, then they can do it again. No loss in the meantime.

Gary.

[Maxwell Plant]

bnfan99,
I got the 100 car limit info from you and 'Bacon, I didn't realize that it has been lifted. The info about the Mitsubishi contract is from the BNSF web site. I'm not mis-quoting anyone or making anything up, I either got the info from you or read it on the BNSF web site. I didn't say NS wasn't hauling the autos out of the plant, they are handing it over to BNSF after that. And yes, both sides took their ball and went home. However, I think this game isn't over...BNSF and CN-IC are still holding hands according to the BNSF news release. Well it didn't say "holding hands" exactly, but that's what it ment.

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RAILROADING-TO-THE-MAX!
Brent Tidaback, Member #234 and a N-Scaler to boot!

[This message has been edited by Maxwell Plant (edited 23 July 2000).]

[bnfan99]

my question is now,do they say they are being interchanged at peoria or at kansas city,we do send a lot of them from decatur westward to interchange with the bnsf there. anyway i'm personally glad they didn't merge because that leaves me two railroads to model and not just one.besides what paint scheme would they have thought up after the merger?my paint booths are already filled up with grand trunk engines and montana raillink stuff.......

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those who know me know my sense of humor,dont take me seriously.
bnfan99

[Maxwell Plant]

It is my understanding it is Peoria, which would make sence to me. Maybe "Bacon would know for sure, is he still on that district or not?

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RAILROADING-TO-THE-MAX!
Brent Tidaback, Member #234 and a N-Scaler to boot!

[makinbaconline]

plain and simple NO they are not going to peoria. no loaded racks goto peoria only empties waiting to be loaded. since the ppu has nothing else in their yard they are storing racks for good yard. if you have been to bloomington recently around our tracks you will see about 200 racks waiting for loading. not only that the ramps have been shut down for 2 weeks and just got going. here is the way the ramps work at good yard. 1. kcbnwest 2 lafayettes 3. chattanoogas. 4 st louis 5 bellevue. sorry but the bn doesnt even run into peoria anymore except for 1 or 2 coal trains weekly for powerton to the up. bn has no trackage rights with the ns on the bloomington district. the bn needs to figure out what they are saying because as bnfan said the d45 locals have been anywhere from 100 to 150 car lengths into decatur lately wchich contradicts the small local only fan in our club and you know who that is.

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Norfolk Southern
The Pack Mule of Transportation
Mo-Pac RULES
Heritage N-Scale Group, Joliet, Il.

[Maxwell Plant]

So, how did BNSF get this "contract to haul" from MITS-MOTORS? If they aren't getting the racks until KC, it seems to be a waste of paper. The NS doesn't go any further than KC, right? This just doesn't make any sence to me now. http://www.trainboard.com/confused.gif

(Side Bar: It just isn't a "local" if it has less than 60 cars! http://www.trainboard.com/biggrin.gif That would be a "transfer run" http://www.trainboard.com/wink.gif!)

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RAILROADING-TO-THE-MAX!
Brent Tidaback, Member #234 and a N-Scaler to boot!

[bnfan99]

we do lots of interchanges with them brent.where does it say that they got the contract for this?i've looked and can't find it.i can't find lots of stuff anymore...need more sleep and less work.thanks........

[Maxwell Plant]

I just when to the BNSF official web site, http://www.bnsf.com/ and looked under media. It's listed under year 2000 news releases. I just looked it up again and it says they will handel all WESTBOUND traffic from the Normal, IL. plant. I think when I first read this a few weeks ago, I guess I just assumed it ment they would take the cars to Peoria for interchange. It doesn't say where they pick up the cars from NS, I'd guess it's still at Kansas City.

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BNSF RAILFAN-TO-THE-MAX!
Brent Tidaback, Member #234 and a N-Scaler to boot!

[makinbaconline]

brent i dont know why they are just now saying its going on because all the westbounds that come from normal go to kc on the ns to the bn thats how it has always went.everything is interchanged in kc not peoria.

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Norfolk Southern
The Pack Mule of Transportation
Mo-Pac RULES
Heritage N-Scale Group, Joliet, Il.

[makinbaconline]

oh yeah just remember all it takes is 1 rr to say no to a merger or buyout and you know what the only one that didnt say no was kcs and cn/ic. there was no way it was going to happen period. just keep waiting i think something else maybe in the works and not with the cn.

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Norfolk Southern
The Pack Mule of Transportation
Mo-Pac RULES
Heritage N-Scale Group, Joliet, Il.

[jrhmem]

Try www.utu.org (http://www.utu.org) for some real fun filled history, background and grousing about the BNSF/CN used to be merger. From my seniority standpoint it would have made lots of sense! Why am I still getting frogged by the CN vehicle trains in Corwith Yard Chicago?

[makinbaconline]

BLE RULES dude! well it's not happening so maybe now they can get on with taking the ns over. i will like that then i can run trains with some real power for once.

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Norfolk Southern
The Pack Mule of Transportation
Mo-Pac RULES
Heritage N-Scale Group, Joliet, Il.

[jrhmem]

Don't let the pretty paint fool you! We got "junk" running aroung out here! I don't care which union, just as long as the carrier doesn't hammer any of us!

[BC Rail King]

<big><big><big> CN-BNSF attached at the hip! </big></big></big>

CN and BNSF are not attached at the hip in regards to operations in the Pacific North West (USA), and South West (CAND). ALL BNSF traffic is now going into CNRs Thorton Yard instead of going across the Fraser River, sitting, waiting to be switched, being switched, and making it to Thorton 2 days later.

There is an up, and a down side to this.

-DOWN Thorton Yard is over loaded, the addition of a couple traisn aday will make work even harder for the crews workin in the yards. Latelly, some have timed out before getting more than 5 miles awy from the yard!

-DOWN A job may be lost a BNSF dispatch

-SAME there still will be a fully manned caboose on the end of most trains!

-UP Freight will be delivered up to 3 days faster, if Thorton is plugged

I could see this going on for years, but if traffic picks up to much, there will be a mini-meltdown at Thorton, I garuntee it!

Happy Railroading!!

Dane N. http://www.trainboard.com/wink.gif

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BCRailKing@Canada.com

Teen Association of Model Railroaders-
for information, contact Dane N. at TAMR2860@Canada.com
http://www.tamr.org

"I was DC, and went DCC!"

[Jack Doran]

Hey I know I am going be flogged for this But hear it out. I totally agree with the merger. What the STB is doing is protecting the U P 's butt. Fully understandable. If you guys realize if this merger went through the BNSF-CN would be the largest railroad of North America. Where the problem creeps in is the fact that BNSF-CN will have a Transcontinental Railroad trough Canada. Not to mention a North and South route between Canada and the Gulf of Mexico. CN has that now with the buyout of the IC. Key here the CN is small. To combine BNSF and CN will create a butt kickin railroad. One that UP can not compete with until they get their stuff internally taken care of. Internally I mean the combining of the CNW and the SP. By know the CNW should be fully UP THe SP is a Different Story. Everyone knows the horror stories involved there. Until they work as one UP is total choas. So UP cannot compete with BNSF-CN. They cannot merge with another railroad to create an equal merger. Remember the STB was created for an equal playing field for the railroads so one would not over power another. I don't like the fact that they stopped the merger but it is quite understandable why it did not happen. 15 months will give the UP time to create an equal merger to keep up with BNSF. But we don't have to worry about that now because both companies pulled out and there is no plans for it.

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Keep on railroad'n

[Maxwell Plant]

I'm glad someone else see this situation my way. I swear, the NTSB's motto should read "To Serve and Protect.. The UP!" http://www.trainboard.com/biggrin.gif

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BNSF RAILFAN-TO-THE-MAX!
Brent Tidaback, Member #234 and a N-Scaler to boot!

[ed pinkley]

well i might be stepping on some toes here but,does the stb listen to trainboard members or to the railroads?it seems this is something they should handle.
yes a merger would be nice but what if the same problems happened with this merger like the ones with the up&sp, bn&atsf, ns,csx,and conrail.there were problems with all of these and with something this big there would probably be bigger problems.we dont see them as modelers but the stb might have.
i personally model the b.f.&s. railroad one i kinda made up as a joke but cought on.we have interchange with the up and bnsf and the stb stays out of my model trian set.but unfortunately the fra bothers me about derailments every now and again darnit.....

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ed pinkley home of the pinkley taurus

[Jack Doran]

Ed, I think STB is trying to stop mergermania before gets out of hand. The details of this merger was kind off sketchy at the moment anyway. One could veiw the railroad map and see what was at stake if these to merged. This was not a railroad it was a superrailroad one that UP would never recover from. This did not make competition competive enough. BNSF-CN would have every way to the Atlantic and the Pacific also the Gulf of Mexico. UP could not create an equal merger to do the same thing. When CN and BNSF decided to merge the price tag was 9 million. UP to buyout NS or CSX will probably cost even more and both companies know for UP to compete with this UP would have to buy one of them. Why not yank up the price a little. My only gripe was Krebs was going to move to a seat on the board and let the CN pres/CEO takeover. Just like greinstein did when BNSF was formed. The only thing he did was retire.

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Keep on railroad'n

[Jack Doran]

OOOPS! I don't mean 9 million I mean 9 Billion. http://www.trainboard.com/redface.gif

[Gats]

The Surface Transportation Board has issued a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPR) regarding Class 1 railroad mergers. The new rules would significantly increase the burden on applicants to demonstrate that a proposed merger transaction is in the public interest, reflects an awareness of the great risk of failure and the competitive, service, and financial concerns raised in connection with what could be the final round of consolidation in the rail industry.
It can be found at - http://www.stb.dot.gov/newsrels.nsf/ByDate

Maybe the BNSF-CN merger is not off but, if the proposal is ratified, looks like it will need to provide far more information and greater responsibility for the merger than any before it.

Gary.

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Gary A. Rose
The Unofficial TC&W page (http://www.pnc.com.au/~audiosat/)
TrainBoard Moderator and Member No.377
Partying in the Olympic City - Aussie, Aussie, Aussie...
N to the Nth degree!