RR Signals

[slimjim]

I just got turned onto a neat site.

http://www.rrsignals.net

[ 11 October 2001: Message edited by: slimjim375 ]</p>

[Colonel]

Jim,
thanks for the link, as a Signal Engineer myelf I love seeing and reading about other railroads signal system.

[slimjim]

There's one more that I have to check out. If it is any good, will post a link to it.

[Peirce]

Jim,
I just took a look. That's a cool site. His pictures make you want to see more. Good find. Thanks.

[slimjim]

The other site didn't turn out. Heading to Helper, UT and beyond any day now. I have a shot already planned. It is on the Utah RY. Neat stuff.

[Peirce]

Now that we have this thread opened, it is time for some pictures of our own. I'll start with this pair of semiphores which are on display at the Galveston Railroad Museum.

http://images.fotki.com/photos/4/41513/85537/001_SEIMPHORE_SIGNALS_ON_D-vi.jpg?1012616612

[ 02 February 2002, 18:38: Message edited by: Peirce ]

[slimjim]

OK. I found the link I was hunting for.

http://home.internetcds.com/~xingman

[Colonel]

Jim,
Thanks for the link a great site.
Here is apicture from ricks site

http://home.internetcds.com/~xingman/Rp16.JPG

[Xingman]

Hey! That is a great looking guy!

[ROMAFERN]

Thanks for sharing those links JIM

[slimjim]

Xingman. Welcome aboard. I checked out your site a while back. Very nice and thanks for sharing.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Xingman:
Hey! That is a great looking guy!<hr></blockquote>

[Xingman]

Thank you for the kind words. The rrsignals.net site isn't actually owned by a signal maintainer. Brad Hellman is an excellent photographer and a huge signal buff. He is a great guy and has alot of great pictures.

[slimjim]

Looks like I got caught on that one. I was thinking of your site at the time. I went in and edited it. Thanks for the heads up.

[Xingman]

It's not a big deal, I just thought it should be clarified.

[Colonel]

Rick,

What type of switch machines do you guys have there? We have a wide range but mainly westinghouse but i do recall some older USS machines in the country areas.
As for LED signals they are great although we have had some complaints from drivers (Engineers) that they are too bright at night.

[Xingman]

Because we are ABS, we don't have any switch machines. We just have switch circuit controllers.

I haven't heard any complaints like that here. Of course our guys may be used to bright flashing lights. Everything looks really bright when you're in the middle of nowhere all of the time. Most of our crossings aren't in lit areas.

[Colonel]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Xingman:
[QB]Because we are ABS, we don't have any switch machines. We just have switch circuit controllers.

QB]<hr></blockquote>

So Rick you are saying all your switches are manual?? and the switch controllers detect the position of the switches for normal running?

[Peirce]

I first posted this item as a tongue-in-cheek entry in the Wheel Stops and Bumpers thread. It is, however, a form of signal saying, "Do not pass this point."

http://images.fotki.com/photos/4/41513/84114/038_THIS_IS_THE_BLUE_FLAG-vi.jpg?1012675879

[ 02 February 2002, 18:52: Message edited by: Peirce ]

[watash]

Here is a couple of pages out of my rules book on signals:

http://ns1.gameinfozone.net/jan/281signal.jpg

[ 21 October 2001: Message edited by: watash ]</p>

[Xingman]

Yes, that is what I am saying. You are correct.

[Martyn Read]

http://images.fotopic.net/?id=618662&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1

Good old UK manual signalling. smile.gif These are Great Western Railway lower quadrant semaphores, which means the arm lowers to give a clear indication, instead of raises. The junction signal in the background has it's main route cleared for the train in the shot.
This is Par in Cornwall, this July. I love the mix of ancient & modern you get in this part of the country, check out the main running lines, the up (eastbound) line is concrete sleepered (tied) with nice new flat bottom rail, the down line has classic British track, wooden sleepers with cast chairs bolted to them and bullhead rail. :D

[ 08. March 2004, 14:34: Message edited by: Martyn Read ]

[Alan]

That is a beautiful picture, Martyn. You are lucky having such a mix in your part of the country.

Got any more goodies?

[Martyn Read]

There are some advantages to living in a relative backwater :D

OK here's a couple more pics from Lostwithiel (if any of you guys happen to find yourselves in Cornwall on a weekday, Lostwithiel & Par are two pretty good places to watch trains!)

http://images.fotopic.net/?id=618977&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1

This is the west end of Lostwithiel, and that's the rather georgous junction signal for the Fowey (pronounced Foy) branch, the right hand head controls the main line west towards Penzance.
66173 has just backed out of the small yard (at left) with a train of empty clay waggons and is now heading for Plymouth with them. It will cross over to the left hand line (most of the UK is set up with left hand running on double track.) at the other end of the station. These class 66 machines (based on the SD70) are now pretty much the standard UK freight power.

http://images.fotopic.net/?id=619036&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1

This is the London end of Lostwithiel with a Virgin HST heading west for Penzance. All the signals at Lostwithiel are controlled from this signal box, the ones farther away have been replaced by colour lights, but the ones in the station area are still manually controlled. The crossing has been modernised with lifting barriers & lights but again is controlled from the 'box rather than the more usual automatic installation. Note that in the UK they are pretty paranoid about people getting on the tracks, all that fencing and behind it a kind of cattle grid arrangement is designed so that people who get off the train go to the road side of the gates & don't walk in front of it!

[ 08. March 2004, 14:37: Message edited by: Martyn Read ]

[Colonel]

We have so many similarities when it come to Signalling here in Australia. I have maintained exact same type of equipment over the years and we still have lower quadrant signalling in the country areas and also upper quadrant signals.

As for fencing the whole rail corridor is fenced here similar to what you have there.

On our level crossing installations we are currently installing swing gates which close when a train approaches and prevents pedestrians from crossing in front of trains.

[Martyn Read]

Australia sounds a fascinating place, from what I've seen (sadly not much :( ) in movies, on TV & other sources it looks like an interesting mix of ancient UK & modern US practise, it's on my "to do" list, one day smile.gif but then so are a lot of things!
:(

Ah well...

[Roger HENRY]

This is a good subject and the sites are great.
Does anyone out there have a source for small (less than 3 mm) Bi Color LEDS?
Roger Henry
Brisbane

AUSTRALIA

[Colonel]

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Roger HENRY:
This is a good subject and the sites are great.
Does anyone out there have a source for small (less than 3 mm) Bi Color LEDS?
Roger Henry
Brisbane

AUSTRALIA<hr></blockquote>

Roger,
You can purchase 2mm tip leds from Wangers at Ashfield Sydney, I have used them to build signals on my layout.
You can see them here on my website
Here is a photo of a level crossing I made with these LEDS

http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/railroad2000/SD60m1.JPG

[Roger HENRY]

Thanks the advice Paul re the LEDS but are they BiColor type? I have the Hewlett Packard 2 mm LEDS witht he axial leads, and very nice signals they make but have been searching for a really small BiColor LED for some 'searchlight signals that I want to develop.
Like the photo. The X ing looks great.
Roger Henry smile.gif

[Peirce]

The links to my pictures have been fixed in this thread.

[Peirce]

This is just to bring this thread to the top heap again. There is a lot of good info for both modelers and prototype fans here.

[Colonel]

Yes Pierce you are right this is a great topic. I have just taken a few pictures to add to this topic. Now can anybody guess what this equipment is used for :D

http://www.railimages.com/album/Paul/P1010005.jpg

http://www.railimages.com/album/Paul/P1010006.jpg

http://www.railimages.com/album/Paul/P1010007.jpg

[signalguy]

First photo looks like a GRS switch machine on a split point derail.
Second photo is a 2 aspect dwarf signal displaying stop.
Third photo seems to be a false proceed signal. It displays yellow over yellow while the split point derail is in the derailing position.

[Colonel]

Well the first pic is of a Nippon switch machine.
you are correct with the second pic.

The 3rd pic is actually a signal showing red over red but the digital camera has made it look like an yellow indication. Signalguy how could you even think our system would show such a false indication lol :D

[Martyn Read]

Anyone want to take a guess at this installation, I took this this weekend at Starcross, in the UK. I'm pretty sure I know what it is...(but I could be wrong.... ;) ) BTW I have updated my old posts on this thread that have missing pics due to photopoint, so if you missed them the first time why not go back & take a look! smile.gif

http://images.fotopic.net/?id=593374&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1

[ 08. March 2004, 14:39: Message edited by: Martyn Read ]

[Alan]

Martyn, I believe that is a wheel counter, used in sections to count the number of wheels on a train entering a section, and (hopefully) counting the same number leaving the section!

This system is used in places where conditions mess up track circuits, I think, and can replace conventional signalling. I seem to remember hearing that wheel counters are used on the Dawlish coast line, because of the salt water problems. (I think it was Gary (Gats) Rose who told me).

[rush2ny]

Originally posted by Colonel:
Now can anybody guess what this equipment is used for :D
Colonel,
That bush in the middle of the tracks in photo#1 is actually an experimental signaling device called a "tickler" :rolleyes: When the locomotive rolls over it, it "tickles" the bottom of the engine and clears it of grease and grime ;)
It hasn't had much success in it's trial stages though because they usually erupt into flames after the loco passes over it. :D

OK,Ok, I am goofing.....but it does look like a wheel counter in the first pic...

Happy Railroading!
Russ

[Peirce]

Thanks, Martyn for updating your older photo links and for your new contributions. I, too, was a "victim" of PhotoPoint going under. I believe all of mine are also fixed now, but if anyone notices a link in need of repair, please let the original poster know about it.

[Martyn Read]

Yep, I believe it's an axle counter installation, used instead of a track circuit where a track circuit could be unreliable (such as this line, where a little water on the track is pretty common!)

Like Alan says, they count the wheelsets entering the block, and there will be another one at the other end of the block to count them out, if the same number of wheelsets leave as entered then the block is clear. smile.gif

(sorry, I edited out a bit here & Colonel replied to it, so i'll put it back in!)
Axle counters have some disadvantages, the big one is that if you have to re-boot the signalling system (say there's a power cut) then track circuits will give a complete accurate picture of where every train has got to, whereas with axle counters the system will not "see" the trains till they pass another axle counter. Track circuits can sometimes detect broken rails as well.

[ 22. October 2002, 08:05: Message edited by: Martyn Read ]

[Colonel]

Matryn you are correct although track cirsuits to not guarentee against broken rail protection due to circulating traction currents.

Axle counters can be more economical on low density lines where the cost of installing track circuits can be quite considerable

[Martyn Read]

You guys did well on that one, this one is a little more difficult. My one clue is that I think Gats will know what these are...
http://images.fotopic.net/?id=593376&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1
And a closeup...
http://images.fotopic.net/?id=593375&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1

[ 08. March 2004, 14:42: Message edited by: Martyn Read ]

[signalguy]

Originally posted by Colonel:
Well the first pic is of a Nippon switch machine.
you are correct with the second pic.

The 3rd pic is actually a signal showing red over red but the digital camera has made it look like an yellow indication. Signalguy how could you even think our system would show such a false indication lol :D The switch machine looks just like a GRS Model 5A 110 volt DC machine with dynamic snubbing and indication. Could be under license or a good copy.
Sorry about the third but I should have noticed the top yellow was the bottom light where the red is normally.
In 93 your RR was working on a color unit using LED's but were having trouble getting a good green. Did they suceed? Safetran has an LED unit now and there are companies putting out LED highway traffic signals

[Colonel]

Yes Gil our Standard for all signals is now LED. In my area we have 102 signals that are now LED. I am currently replacing 60 gantry signals with LED.

We are also trialling a tri colour LED that displays Red, Yellow and Green in the one aspect. It was actually developed as a LED replacement for a search light signal. We are placing one aspect over the other to give a double aspect indication.

[John Whitby]

Martyn,
In the absence of any other answers I reckon that the assemblies in your photos are the arming and trigger loops of a TPWS (Train Protection and Warning System) "overspeed sensor". These are used together with "train stop sensors" in the safety system that is currently being fitted in the U.K.
Incidentally, where did you take the photos ? The track is even worse than that in the Colonels pics. :D :D
John

[ 24. October 2002, 17:12: Message edited by: John Whitby ]

[signalguy]

Originally posted by Colonel:
We are also trialling a tri colour LED that displays Red, Yellow and Green in the one aspect. It was actually developed as a LED replacement for a search light signal. We are placing one aspect over the other to give a double aspect indication.This sounds similar to the unilense type signal where 3 or 4 bulbs are used behind color discs into a fiber optics pipe that ends behind the lense. Each bulb gives you a different color through the same lense.

[Peirce]

If I remember correctly, I found this one last year in the 30th Street Station, Philadelphia.

http://www.railimages.com/albums/peircebehrendt/acp.jpg

[signalguy]

This is a former PRR position light dwarf signal. The original style had a center lense that was removed when they changed the stop aspect (shown) to red lenses. All the other lenses are clear or white. This type signal simulates the semaphore signal aspects where stop is horizontal, approach or Yellow is a 45 degree to the right and clear or green is vertical. The 45 degree to the left is the restricting aspect.

[Martyn Read]

This is a rather wonderful old signal still standing at Barnetby, nice mix of lattice and wood construction for the posts. smile.gif

http://images.fotopic.net/?id=1490585&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1

Somewhat more usual is this two aspect colour light with route indicator at Crediton, Devon. It's controlled from the signal box in the background, which also controls the road crossing.

http://images.fotopic.net/?id=1364521&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1

Birmingham New St station has an interesting set of circumstances, a rather low roof, narrow platforms and a need for trains to share platforms, these mid-platform signals unusually have the 3-aspect head mounted horizontally, to allow viewing above people on the platform and below the line of the roof.

http://images.fotopic.net/?id=1490584&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1

BTW, my old links are updated again.... smile.gif

[Peirce]

There never seems to be an end to the variety of signaling methods and equipment. Thanks, Gil for the explaination of the one in my last post.

Martyn, Thanks for adding to the variety. That last one looks like it was borrowed from a street traffic light. Also, thanks for fixing your links.

[Alan]

Good pics Martyn. There are still semaphore signals not far from here, so I should get out and photograph them whilst I am able.

Must see if I can dig out some black and white pics of GN somersault signals I took about 40 years ago!

[signalguy]

This isn't a very good photo but it was taken on Paul's railroad in NSW. Notice the trip stop for the automatic train stop in the foreground on the left hand rail. Paul should be able to tell the location of the photo.
http://www.railimages.com/albums/gilmanabar/acf.jpg

[signalguy]

This color light signal has the three colors in an inverted pattern with red at the bottom and green and yellow above. The second photo shows the base of the signal and the foundation and ladder base. Many railroads changed from concrete foundations to this type which can be used for signals and crossing gates.
http://www.railimages.com/albums/gilmanabar/acg.sized.jpg
http://www.railimages.com/albums/gilmanabar/ach.sized.jpg

[Colonel]

Originally posted by signalguy:
This isn't a very good photo but it was taken on Paul's railroad in NSW. Notice the trip stop for the automatic train stop in the foreground on the left hand rail. Paul should be able to tell the location of the photo.
http://www.railimages.com/albums/gilmanabar/acf.jpg wow I was there today, the place you show is Glenfield which is part of my area. The area has changed significantly since Gil was there.

There is now a terminal road to the left then a loop for freaight traffic to the left of that. I will try and take a pic next time I'm there and post it here.

[signalguy]

I knew where it was as I also have one of the station sign. I thought it was in your area from what you said in a previous post. A lot can change in 10 years.

[Colonel]

Here is a view of Glenfield from looking back toawrds where the first photograph was taken. As you can see the two tracks on the right do not exist on the left of the original photograph.

http://www.railimages.com/albums/album15/abb.jpg

[signalguy]

On the left I see a high speed crossover. Does it have movable point frogs or conventional frogs?

[Colonel]

You still have a good eye Gil, yes the high speed crossovers are moveable swingnose (Frogs) we use hydraulic pumps to operate rams to throw the swingnose. You can see on the far left one of the movable swngnose.

[Alan]

I see that the right hand track is not electrified so is this just a siding? If so are all the freight trains which use it diesel hauled?

[Colonel]

Good observations Alan the right track is a 5 km freight loop where freight trains are put away to allow passenger movements. Our freight companies have stored away all electric locomotives and only use diesel now.

The 5 km freight siding is about to become extended linking the south of Sydney with the main freight corridor which will allow through running without having to put freight trains away during peak hour for passenger services.

[Alan]

Thanks Paul. Good to see a railway being extended to serve freight operation smile.gif

[signalguy]

Here is a Johnny Trains photo of a B&O signal. It is at the end of a siding with the main line signal on a bracket pole and the dwarf signal controlling movement from the siding to the main track is to the right of the bracket pole base. These are color position light signals.
http://www.railimages.com/albums/johnniegocki/abw.jpg

[ 20. March 2004, 17:05: Message edited by: signalguy ]

[Peirce]

Here is one I have never seen before. It looks portable. :confused:
http://www.railimages.com/albums/peircebehrendt/ado.jpg