Railfans

[davek]

Railfans, Do we love them or do we hate them? I am a part-time railroader and a railfan. I have always shown proper respect for railroad property, and most railfans I have met on the job do the same. I am friendly and helpful to these people. Some railfans do not show respect for my railroad and I have to tell them to leave. Why do they put themselves and us in danger for a stupid picture? I like most railfans and will do most anything to help them enjoy there day.

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David V. Kittner

[This message has been edited by davek (edited 20 April 2000).]

[Ironhorseman]

About 12 years ago, while being a member of the California Highway Patrol and with my Sergeant's knowledge of my affection for steam locomotives, I was given the 'awful' assignment to meet the 4449 at the California/Oregon border and escort her through our area along SR97 to the town of Weed. (For those who are not familiar with 4449, it is a beautifully restored Southern Pacific 1941 Lima 4-8-4 locomotive).
The reason for my assignment is to keep an upper hand on those 'crazy' railfans who drive like demons and will do about anything to get their cars into position alongside the 60 mph steamer for pictures and or recordings. There had been numerous accidents between Portland, Oregon to California from these driving antics, which we wanted to avoid. Soooooo ... I just put on my lights and moved thru traffic as 4449 blasted thru the tunnel at Doris, California and took the position alongside the loco all the way down to Weed. I'm sure there were many angry drivers behind me, http://www.trainboard.com/wink.gif but we all made it safely to Weed. But she sure is a beautiful locomotive and I was happy to have had that experience! Now then, there may be a reader or two in here who may have been in that motorcade and may have a few harsh words to say about it ... but please do not get tooooo personal with your remarks http://www.trainboard.com/wink.gif

Bill

"Get Goosed on the Yreka Western"

[Alan]

Hi Dave, welcome to Trainboard.

Yeah, Bill, I have seen these 'posse's' on video's, and it looks AWFUL dangerous to me too. What is it about trains that makes people act this way? http://www.trainboard.com/smile.gif



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Alan

The perfect combination - BNSF and N Scale!

www.ac-models.com (http://www.ac-models.com)
http://Andersley.homestead.com
http://galleryusarail_tehcaj.homestead.com
http://eurogallery.homestead.com

[Ironhorseman]

Yep, they sure can be dangerous alright! I guess it is caused by something inside of those of us who think it's a once in a lifetime chance to catch live steam on a mainline ... I donno for sure. But there is deffinately a deep passion for it.

Bill

"Get Goosed on the Yreka Western"

[NSBrakeman]

I say that if they take the time out of their days to SAFETLY come and watch us at work, they deserve a special toot on the horn and a friendly wave, or even conversation. Just as long as they respect the property and equipment.
-NSBrakeman

[E-8]

When I was just a small child (before the days of cable television, computers, etc.), my parents liked to go down and park in a public parking lot near the railroad tracks on Saturday evenings to watch a few trains go by. I guess they thought that was a healthy activity for me - which it was.

When I grew up, my friend and I found a couple of great places to watch trains (on public property). We always had a good vantage point without ever venturing on to railroad property. Although, the local constabulary forces always thought we were up to something suspicious. They kept asking us what we were doing and when we told them "watching trains," they just couldn't understand why someone wanted to watch trains in a town with so much railroad activity that most locals saw it as an inconvenience.

My best railfanning spot was in my grandparents yard on Missouri. Their property bordered the Frisco tracks and I could sit on their propane tank and feel the ground shake as the trains went by so closely that it seemed I could reach out and touch them.

I've never ventured on to railroad property and would not dream of it. I think there are plenty of good places to railfan without getting in the way.

I read a news report on the radio today at the station I work at about a Maine man that was walking along some railroad tracks yesterday in Rochester, New Hampshire and was struck from behind by a train. Seems he was deaf and did not hear the train. I would think he could have felt it coming anyway. Fotunately, his injuries are not life-threatening but you have to wonder why he was walking down the tracks in the forst place.

Charlie

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Ship It On The FRISCO!

[Alan]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NSBrakeman:
I say that if they take the time out of their days to SAFETLY come and watch us at work, they deserve a special toot on the horn and a friendly wave, or even conversation. Just as long as they respect the property and equipment.
-NSBrakeman<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What a splendid comment http://www.trainboard.com/smile.gif Thanks, NSB

When we were over there, it was great to get a wave from the locomotive crews, I guess we are still kids at heart!!

I wonder if I should wear a T shirt with the British flag on it to show how far we have come to watch their trains http://www.trainboard.com/biggrin.gif



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Alan

The perfect combination - BNSF and N Scale!

www.ac-models.com (http://www.ac-models.com)
http://Andersley.homestead.com
http://galleryusarail_tehcaj.homestead.com
http://eurogallery.homestead.com

[davek]

I agree with you people that if a person is not being a danger to themselves or the employees they should be treated nicely. I am always willing to take a moment and tell a nice railfan what is going on, and where he or she can get some good photos. A look in the cab is not out of the question either.

[Ironhorseman]

I started out very young as a 'railfan'. We had a branchline of the Southern Pacific that ran right down the middle of our street on a raised, unimproved right of way. Only had one train per day .. one in the morning and when it returned in the evening. But, on weekends there was always an old steam loco pulling that short consist, and I was facinated by all that motion and noise it made. One Friday evening, when I was age 11, I went out and removed the ballast from between two widely set ties. Early the next morning I was awakened by the whistle of the steam loco as it entered the branch line from the Burbank Block. I quickly got dressed and ran out to my spot on the railroad ... I laid on my back between the ties with my feet sticking out under the rails and let the train run over me. I wanted to see what the steamer looked like underneith, but there was so much dust and hot water that fell onto my face, I couldn't see it! The train did not stop, so I guess they did not see me! http://www.trainboard.com/smile.gif I guess I can't say I have always respected railroad property.

Bill

"Get Goosed on the Yreka Western"

[throttlejock]

Oh Bill,
I hope no one tries to repeat this very stupid action you did when you were 11. The track is in such bad shape around the former SP that any place where there is little or no ballast the rail will bouce down in the soft spot. We see alot of bad spots like this where the rail just bounces up and down when a train goes over. Like I said before this brings chills down my spine to think some dumb kids will run out and try laying under the track.

[E-8]

http://www.trainboard.com/eek.gif and to think he later became a cop!

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Ship It On The FRISCO!

[Ironhorseman]

I guess I was a little crazy .. had to be to take the career that I chose! http://www.trainboard.com/smile.gif Come to think of it, the rails did drop down a little on my ankles, but not much. The only other nutty thing I did was to ride my little red 'Flyer' wagon down the spillway of a dam. Now that was really exciting! http://www.trainboard.com/wink.gif

But you are right TJ .. SP's old roadways are in sore shape .. and I too hope some kid doesn't come in and read about my stupidity when I was a youngster and try it too.

Bill

"Get Goosed on the Yreka Western"

[NSBrakeman]

Davek-
On a more positive note, I can recall a time when I let an old man and his grandson into the cab on my train. I can recall it like it was yesterday. I was sitting with my conductor on our train waiting out a meet. I looked out the window, and I saw the two coming from behind (for it was at a station). I saw the grandfather talking to the small lad, and I immediately knew this was the opprotunity for a once-in-a-lifetime chance. When they got close enough, I slid the window open and hollered to the two. I talked a little while to the grandfather (for the lad was a little shy, being in such a place) and he said he can still recall the times when he fired for the Frisco on steam engines. I invited the two up in my cab, and showed them the controls. The little child was no longer shy, and even gave the horn a toot (much to the suprise of me, my conductor, and his grandfather)! We all had a good laugh, and in a few moments we were off, but not without letting the grandfather get a few shots of his grandson in my lap, with his hands on the controls. I'll never forget the look of joy in his face as we waved goodbye as we started off on out trip, with those diesels growling and horns blaring. Ahh, those were the days.

-NSBrakeman

[crash219]

NSBrakeman -

That's a great story. I have found that the majority of railroad employees are pretty nice folks and seem proud that non-railroaders are interested in what they do for a living.

The rude folks around railroads seem to be mostly the railfans. I have often been appalled at what I have seen my fellow railfans do. I like to take pictures, too, but I'm certainly not going to risk getting killed doing it! That could give a whole new meaning to "once in a lifetime photograph".

Frankly, I've gotten to where I more or less actively avoid other railfans. That does not mean I do not continue to have a big interest in railroads and I am on railroad property from time to time. If railroad employees perceive you have common sense, a useful knowledge of railroading, pay attention to what is going on around you, they will usually give you permission to be there. I am sometimes amazed just how friendly and helpful railroad employees are (to be more specific, these are CSX or NS employees).

On the other hand, if they begin to perceive you are a danger to yourself and others, you can hardly blame them for not wanting you around!

[NSBrakeman]

Crash219-
I agree that it is indeed appalling to see how some people act around railroads. It is very stupid for people to risk their lives for a photograph, or to get home 5 minutes earlier. Even though railfans know more about trains than the public, they should at least realize the dangers associated with railroad property. I can recall a time when I was working a local job, and I spotted a few kids walking near the railroad tracks. We were about ready to "go for beans", so I decided to tell these kids about the dangers of railroad property. I expected to be taken less that seriously, but I was wrong. Instead, they apologized, and they stayed clear of the tracks until they go to wherever they were going. This floored me, because usually people just let it go in one ear and out the other. I have found that railfans are better at listening to what we have to say, at least more than the general public. Crash219, are you a railfan or are you a railroader? Just curious.

P.S. Whoever started this board- Are you happy now that you pulled a few storied out of one railroader?! Just kidding, I'm always happy to chat.

Look Ahead, Look South

-NSBrakeman

[Alan]

On our railfan visit to California in 1998, we went down to Caliente, on Tehachapi pass, and the grade crossing was blocked by a derailed freight train. The clear-up crews were there, and there was an SD45 set out on a siding down the track.

There were so many hard hats around that we thought we had better ask if it was ok for us to go and take photos of the loco.

The person we asked just happened to be a UP Superintendent, and he was extremely friendly, possibly because we asked, but could also have been the English accent http://www.trainboard.com/smile.gif

He kept us in touch with progress on clearing the tracks, and gave us souvenirs (UP baseball caps, leather UP work gloves, UP I.D. badges, etc.) To us Brits. this was great.

Later we were on Cajon, near summit (the fenced off bit) and a UP freight stopped right next to us. They must have thought we looked thirsty, as the crew tossed us a six-pack of ice-cold water! UP SD60M 6166 is a special loco. for us! http://www.trainboard.com/biggrin.gif

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Alan

The perfect combination - BNSF and N Scale!

www.ac-models.com (http://www.ac-models.com)
http://Andersley.homestead.com
http://galleryusarail_tehcaj.homestead.com

[crash219]

NSBrakeman -
I'm just a railfan. My job is as an engineer, but the mechanical kind, not the train driving kind. I've spent my career dealing with such things as aircraft, spacecraft, superconducting magnets and fuel cells, but never railroads. But I've been a railfan for an awfully long time. Here is a story my mother used to tell that illustrates both how long I've been a railfan AND the risky things that railfans will do just to see the trains:

The house where I was born was no more than 20 yards from the Santa Fe tracks that ran through East Dallas. Texas & Pacific (clue 1 about how long ago it was) had trackage rights through there, and there was a "milk run" (clue 2) that went through there every morning around 4A.M. It was pulled by one of T&P's high-stepping oil-burning steam locomotives (clue 3). I was no more than 3 or 4 years old at the time of this story (that makes it about 1945 or 1946) so I don't remember it, but according to my mother, the train woke her one morning and she decided to go to the kitchen for a glass of water. The kitchen window faced the railroad and when she got there she found me. She said I had pulled out kitchen drawers to make "steps" to climb up onto the cabinet and when she came in, I was standing in the sink watching out the window that was over the sink to see the train go by.

After she "rescued" me, she said she started to wonder how many times I'd done that before I'd been "caught". Her reasoning was that I must have been doing it for awhile since I must have climbeed out of bed well before the train got there to have time to get properly stationed and I had obviously worked out all the logistics of getting up on the cabinet so she figured there was no telling how many times I'd done it. I was severely scolded because climbing kitchen cabinets in the dark is very dangerous for a toddler.

So I was warned early on about the dangers of railfanning http://www.trainboard.com/smile.gif... and this story suggests that I have been an avid railfan for over 50 years!

[NSBrakeman]

Crash219-
That's a pretty good story of how much you liked trains! I myself was a railfan before I joined up with the Southern. Oops, I just dated myself! Well, I guess I now have to explain my railroading career as a "boomer".
Around the time of Vietnam (again, dated right there) I was about 17 years old, and my father was away in Nam. My mother suggested I get a job, and since the Southern ran right through my town, I thought "well why not?!". I talked to my grandfather, who was the stationmaster (WOO-HOO!!), and he said I have to start in the station with him (for I was 17). As soon as I turned 18, I moved onto the yard work as a *brakeman*. For about 14 months, I slid between being a brakeman and a conductor. Since my grandfather had some friends who were engineers, they let me begin running trains even though I wasn't old enough. I've been doing this ever since then, for a few different railroads. When the Southern and Norfolk Western merged, I was then on the NS, hence my screen name. For a long story short, NS fired me, so I moved to the Illinois Central Gulf, which is now Illinois Central. And no, I do not work for CN since they merged a few years back! We are all Illinois Central men! But I still don't know why it says NSBrakeman, it should be SouEngineer or SouBrakeman, don't know which!
I guess it has some sort of meaning for me.

Illinois Central
Mainline of Mid-America

-NSBrakeman

[davek]

Someone asked if I was happy about the stories that have appeared. The answer is yes. I am a railroader on a part-time basis, and have been a railfan since the beginning of time itself. One of my favorite railfan trips was to New Castle Pa. Myself and some friends had been at a model train show earlier in the day, and decided to do some railfanning when we were done. We ended up at the CHESSIE yard at New Castle Pa well after dark. The first thing we did was get permission at the yard office to take some night photos. The person at the office was very polite and helpfull. He suggested that we go to the tower at the end of the yard. Imagine our surprize when we found a manned, fully operational interlocking tower, with an armstrong switch machine in it. This tower was in the process of being closed, and I do not recall if the switches were actually controlled from that point anymore. I will have to e-mail one of my friends now and find out for sure. The tower operator invited us up and showed us all around. About 6 months later the tower was closed and is now gone. UN tower was removed from the site by a historical society and saved somewhere. It was a real treat to find something like this in the mid-nineties.

[ChrisDante]

The train broke apart about 1AM. We were going so slowly I never noticed, other than we stopped.
It was in 1977 or there abouts, I was taking my soon to be wife on a week-end railfan trip. The organizers had 3 pieces of private varnish tied on to the rear end of some crack freight going from Oak Island yards in Newark, NJ to Buffalo NY. I don't remember the name of the yard. ( If anyone can fill in the name of the freight and the yard in Buffalo, I'd appreciate it.) We were taking a route that traveled over a famous viaduct in Penn. I think it was Sarouke or something like that. (again corrections please). The varnish was an old Pensy business car, a coach and a pullman.
We were susposed to arrive in Buffalo bright and early Sat. morning have three or four hours for sightseeing, then be back in Newark early Sunday.
I'm going to use up all the bandwidth telling this in one batch so...
To Be Continued


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When in doubt, empty your magazine.

[Ironhorseman]

Davek .. your recount of the tower brought back memories for me. Back in the late 40's I used to ride my bicycle to the Burbank Tower where Southern Pacific's Coastal line and Tehachapi lines junctioned. I can remember foggy mornings and climbing those wooden stairs up to the door. The old man who worked in there was very grandfatherly ... a friendly old gent who never seemed to tire of my visits. I can recall the smell of his pipe .. the sound of the telegraph, (which clicked on an old Prince Albert tobacco can), keeping track of where traffic was on a lighted block occupation detector board, and watching those huge cab-forwards and GS4 Daylights come looming out of the fog, making the tower tremble under their weight as they passed. The old man would let me throw those Armstrong Switch levers too. Surely that old man had much to do with my love of trains. Surely he is in Heaven by now ... and the tower is long gone. I shall never forget these things.

Bill

"Get Goosed on the Yreka Western"

[davek]

In my last post I was talking about UN tower at New Castle Pa,. I found out that the tower did indeed control the switchs and signals at the time. The photographs that I took at the tower that night, were taken using existing light. I never used the flash. The tower operator turned on all the outside lights on the tower for us, and that was all the light I had. At the time I figured that since I had my camera I wasn't going to pass up the oppotunity to photograph a working tower. Now I am glad that I took them.

[davek]

Chris it sounds like you crossed over Starucca Viaduct. There are 2 Yards in Buffalo that I know of. 1 is Frontier Yard (NYC), Bison was the other yard. I think Bison was the old Delaware Lackwanna & Western, and was the smaller of the 2. Frontier Yard is absolutly huge.

[ChrisDante]

DaveK, thank you it was Bison yard as I remember, and the Starucca Viaduct. One of the travlers on this trip was a Mr. Frimbo, now at the time when I was introduced to him, I had no idea who he was other than a famous railfan(??), years later I find out he's a well known writer for The New Yorker magazine.

I remember they put our three cars on the tail,I think we were about 1 mile from the head end, of this ConRail so-called crack freight. It was susposed to be hauling perishables from Newark to Buffalo.
My bride-to-be is gazing around at her fellow travelers and musing to me quietly at what a "colorful" group of people these railfans were.
We had a nice dinner, watched the grade crossing lights go by and retired to our compartment. We woke up in the morning still out in the boonies, no where near Buffalo. We didn't arrive into Bison yard untill late afternoon. Did get to go into town and have a good dinner, Ginny called a friend that lived in town and she came and met us for a drink. Got back to the train and we took off for Newark about 14 hours late. We come to a stop soon after leaving Buffalo, come to find out, the driver only put 100 lbs of air in the lines, our cars needed 125 lbs and one of the three cars developed flat spots on the wheels, the owner was aboard and really pissed. Even back then he was looking at thousands to get the wheels turned back to true. They had to cut the car out and leave it on a siding.
We are now down to two cars, and all the people in the third car have crowded into the other two.
Water running low.
Food all gone.
We call ahead to some KFC somewhere in Penn. The engineer slows the train to a walk, he wasn't traveling much faster all day anyway, and the guy from "the Colonel" is throwing bags of chicken on the train. I don't remember why the engineer wouln't stop. He was now over 24 hours late anyway.
We finally get to Oak Island Yard mid morning on Monday.
It took a number of years for my wife to go on a train again, but for my 50th birthday she did hire a private car for my party. And now she loves going on the TGV.

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When in doubt, empty your magazine.

[ROBBIE000]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by davek:
Railfans, Do we love them or do we hate them? I am a part-time railroader and a railfan. I have always shown proper respect for railroad property, and most railfans I have met on the job do the same. I am friendly and helpful to these people. Some railfans do not show respect for my railroad and I have to tell them to leave. Why do they put themselves and us in danger for a stupid picture? I like most railfans and will do most anything to help them enjoy there day.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I have beewn on some train trips & seen people in vans & cars try to chace the train & sometime try to race the train. I have also seen some people sit on railroad cars sitting in a siding taking picture as we roll along. I can see people on the side in a safe area like a field or even in a station, but sitting on top of railroad cars & climing on building to get a good shot. If people want pictures so bad, why not take them from a SAFE area. People who sponcer the trips or even the counties officals should or even the railroad themselves should put something along the tracks like one of thoes LONG FENCES I see or something were people can see but can't climb over. Also if there are people too close the engineer or someone should report it to the dispatcher so the police can get them back. Also has anyone seen this; I went on a MARC train trip & we stopped 1 hour as a side stop & someone had put their train scanner on & would anouce on a PA of a train coming. Some 'STUPID' people crossed the track & 1 even sat on the same track as the train came. Our engineer radioed to the trains engineer that people were all over the track & this train blasted his horn. some person with a camera with a recorder on it layed the recorder on the track, luck it did not break. Later on when we all got on board the people who did the stupid things were told not to come on the train trips ever. The person in charge of the historical society has the names & address of the people & MARC does too. Good going to thoes who kick people off these train trips!



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KEEP TRAINING

[davek]

Our railroad has a pre-planned trip if someone ever wants to run a fan trip on our line. When we run one people are told when they get off the train that the train will not come back into view until all people are in the designated photo area. Our line is not paralleled by any roads, and all photo locations are basically out in the middle of nowhere. All property on either side of the tracks for the entire length of the line is private except where we pass through towns. The private property is almost all posted No Trespassing.

[alimoo]

There isn't a day go by when I don't wonder why people don't realize just how dangerous these risks they take are just to get a good photo, recoding.
There was an accident caused a few years ago in NSW because some railfan wanted to get a great sound recording of a steamtrain climbing a hill. This fan wound on a brake in one of the carriges so that the engine would sound better going up the hill. Unfortunately because of this idiot more sand was dropped,(which normally wouldn't be needed on this hill), to get better traction which then caused the track circuits to not work propery, therefore the signal behind the train remained at go and another train ran up the back of the train causing damage and injury to innocent people.
You would think that any serious fan would have better knowledge of what is safe and what dangers exist.

[Shifter]

I feel much the same as the others who say
as long as a railfan shows respect for the
rail environment and they are safe and curtious...then I say let them pursue thier
hobby. I use what I call the "pulse rule", which simply means that if what they
are doing doesn't raise my pulse I don't report them, if it does- then I do. I dont
mind helping folks with info either. I have
been with NS 10 yrs now, mostly as an Eng'r.

[Alan]

Shifter, welcome to TrainBoard. I love the 'pulse rule' http://www.trainboard.com/biggrin.gif I am always sensible when near tracks, honest http://www.trainboard.com/smile.gif

I have to say that I didn't notice any railfans doing anything silly last time I was over, but have seen reports on here of just plain stupid acts!

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Alan

The perfect combination - BNSF and N Scale!

www.ac-models.com (http://www.ac-models.com)
Andersley Western Railroad (http://Andersley.homestead.com)
Alan's American Gallery (http://galleryusarail_tehcaj.homestead.com)
Alan's European Gallery (http://eurogallery.homestead.com)
Alan's British Steam Gallery (http://britishsteamgallery.homestead.com)

[Colonel]

With over 20 years service on the railroads (actually we say Railways here in Australia)I have no problems with railfans since I'm a railfan myself. One word of caution though is that railfans must keep clear of the rail corridor. I have seen too many people come close to being hit by trains and most are experienced railway employees.

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http://members.optusnet.com.au/~pcassar/index

[Rule 281]

I agree with you Colonel. Many train watchers want to be real near the tracks to 'get the feel' or get that perspective camera shot but I've seen enough old banding, tarps, cables, shifted loads etc. sticking out of cars to dread having them standing that close. Even at low speed, they'd never know what hit them and the crew would probably not find out anything about it 'till they had to file the investigation papers. Anyone can feel free to watch my trains and take all the pictures they can afford, but stay waaaaaay back and help prevent my next adrenaline rush.

[Alan]

I remember back in steam days (the sixties), at Grantham station on the East Coast main line, express trains coming down Stoke bank and through the station were doing about 80 mph. I took a number of photographs here, and one time some other railfan (we called 'em trainspotters) was standing close to the platform edge as a Gresley streamlined A4 (like Mallard- world steam record holder) came tearing down the 2% grade with the driver hanging on the whistle. But the **** took his photo and only stepped back a foot or so. The slipstream from one of these trains was terrific, and later a line was painted on the platform to remind people to keep away from the edge, except when boarding a train.

Anyone with any sense would not need to be told!

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Alan

The perfect combination - BNSF and N Scale!

www.ac-models.com (http://www.ac-models.com)
Andersley Western Railroad (http://Andersley.homestead.com)
Alan's American Gallery (http://galleryusarail_tehcaj.homestead.com)
Alan's European Gallery (http://eurogallery.homestead.com)
Alan's British Steam Gallery (http://britishsteamgallery.homestead.com)

[AFN]

While monitoring the TRAINS WEBcam at Rochelle, Il on Monday afternoon I noticed several small objects moving around the diamonds as the images loaded every few seconds or so. I realized these were "Fans" when the image moved quickly from the north side of the UP main to the south and seconds later an eastbound coal train appeared. Here is a spot to cater to us railfans and still it is not good enough for some. It would be a shame for an accident to occur after this fine facility was constructed for the SAFE enjoyment of watching trains at one of the busier junctions in Illinois.

[ladybngnfan]

I'm surprised that you lived to tell about it! I'd be too scared to even attempt such a thing. With the kind of luck I have sometimes, I'd get killed.