Calling for NMRA Point Scoring Help...

[pray59]

Ok, I'm almost done with my Z Scale Caboose, which I was doing my writeup at the same time as construction. I need more points! In order for it to count towards my Master Builder - Cars certificate I need 87.5 points on at least 4 of 8 models I build, and they give absolutly no extra points based on size.

To qualify for this certificate you must:

1. Build eight operable scale models of railroad cars. There must be at least four different types of cars represented in the total of eight. One of these must be
a passenger car, and at least four must be scratch built. The remainder, if other than scratch built, must be super detailed as defined in the AP Regulations
"Definitions" section.

2. Earn a Merit Award earn at least 87.5 points with four of the above models either via an NMRA sponsored contest or AP Merit Award Judging.

3. Submit a completed Statement of Qualifications (SOQ) which shall include the following:

Attachments giving detailed descriptions of the models.
Identification of the scratch built features.
List of all the commercial components appearing on each model.
Materials used in building the models.
Verification of the Merit Awards. Here is the model as of today:


http://home.attbi.com/~pray59/projects/images/p904d.jpg

http://home.attbi.com/~pray59/projects/images/p904c.jpg

http://home.attbi.com/~pray59/projects/images/p904a.jpg

And here is how the points are broken up:

Construction-Workmanship: 0-40
Detail-Quality and Amount: 0-20
Conformity-Prototype Practice: 0-25
Finish & Lettering-General Appearance: 0-25
Scratchbuilt-Amount of Parts Built by the Modeler: 0-15

As far as I know, nobody has ever got their points on a Z scale model, having to build an HO or larger model to get their points, and then setting it somewhere to collect dust.

With the help of a few of you more experienced modelers, we might be able to find a few extra details to add or tricks to put in the paperwork that can add a few extra points. The convention starts next Wedensday. :D

[BoxcabE50]

I've never been a member. (Just not much of a group joiner.) At this time, I wish I was. I'd sure be happy to help you. What you've done with these caboose projects is indeed impressive!

Can you keep us posted on how you're doing with this process? It might be fun to follow!

:D

Boxcab E50

[pray59]

Well maybe you can help me with something, the prototype is from page 122 of that morning sun NP color guide book, and it has hangers in the upper corners for black oval things that look kinda like rear view mirrors.

Do you know what they really are? Because of all the pictures i have, I can only see the black side. smile.gif

[Coaltrain]

When I used to enter the contest I got lots of comments about adding more underframe details (hangers, clevis, chains, pipes, etc.) and interior detail. The interior detail could be added it you can still get the roof off but I'm not sure in Z scale if you could see through the windows to even know if it was in there. You would have to make the roof come off. The underframe would be somewhat hard to make very detailed. the pipes and rods would be easy but the clevis would be to big and I don't know of chain that small.

[BoxcabE50]

Originally posted by pray59:
Do you know what they really are? Because of all the pictures i have, I can only see the black side. smile.gif I cannot state what they are with 100% certainty. However, I can tell you what they are not. Even though they are in the appropriate brackets, these are not markers of any sort.

I have not been in an NP caboose for a long time. So I do not recall the cupola seating. I would bet that due to the way this caboose is coupled, the train crew is seated so as to be riding backwards, and these are indeed mirrors.

:D

Boxcab E50

[ 19. April 2003, 16:48: Message edited by: BoxcabE50 ]

[pray59]

OK, I have added the mirrors, but I had asked the TellTale group also, and got a reply that the oval thing was not a mirror, and was not black, but was a daytime marker, and was to be painted signal red? I had painted mine black on the backside, and silver on the front.

I also decided to do the underbody details, but I cannot do an interior because the walls are too thick, and there is less than 1/4" x 3/4" inside, and I need to put weights inside. I did manage window glass though. I have redesigned the underbody to accomidate all the brake gear and valves, which I cut from acetate, but I now have scrapped that model, and am starting a new one to incorporate the changes.

I bet I could get 5 extra points with all the help you guys have offered, and every half point counts! :D

[pray59]

Uh-Oh, Those guys in the NP Tell Tale group are going at it now! They seem to agree that the paddles are a daytime marker paddles. Some say they are green only, some say they are red, and one guy says they are green on one side and red on the other, and that he has one, but his is BN so mileage may vary?
graemlins/headscratch.gif

[BoxcabE50]

Well, this is why I don't bother with some groups any more...... :rolleyes: graemlins/bleh.gif

This could be a situation of what color they think it should be, versus what it actually is......

The item in question is definitely in a marker bracket.

I have examined the photo in question under a high magnification. The colors of the photo do not appear to have shifted so much that it would change green to black. The green on a marker paddle is usually fairly bright. Would not be so easily changed to an appearance of black.

For the time period of the photo, only two colors would have been carried. Red or green. The only potential difference between day and night markers is illumination. Not colors. In motion, (moving ahead or back), or on single track the color would be red. When standing in the clear, the color would be green. This appears to be in a yard, and could therefore be indicated as clear.

Very few modelers seem to go as far as adding this detail.....

:D

Boxcab E50

[pray59]

I have been looking at the books too, and I see on page 100 of NPCP Book #1 what looks like a black paddle at the bottom of the page, but I don't know what color the backside is. On page 88 is both a front and back shot, both look black in the pictures, but the backside is kind of shady. Nice picture showing Caboose Pooling lead with W-3 Mike 1717 on page 56, looks kind of like the photo on the homepage of my website. :D

NPCP Book #2 page 41 shows a steel caboode with those paddles, at the end of a train being pushed by 2 helpers, again the business end of the paddle is not show, but the black side shows. Same on page 64, backside not shown.

NPCP Book #3 page 82, black side shown, business end not. Page 127 shows the rear of train, but it looks black, and covered with snow dark shady picture.

Book #4 is black & white, and geared towards steam passenger...Nice.

Book #5 is geared towards Lowey Green Streamliners...Nicer!

Nothing in NP in Color vol #1

What do you recommend Ken, black, red, green, dirty, or combo? smile.gif

[BoxcabE50]

Well, I've been trying to find my 1967 Consolidated Code of Operating Rules. But it seems to be elusive. This book would spell out how markers were used, and note the appropriate colors to display.

At this point, you might just want to baffle them all! Paint a few purple. With pink and yellow dots!

:D

Boxcab E50

[pray59]

Pictures of progress up to today. The painted caboose is not going to the judgine, rather the modified model that is unfinished:

Smokejack Guy Wires and uncoupling levers added
http://home.attbi.com/~pray59/projects/images/p904h.jpg

Frame Crossmembers and brakegear and valves added
http://home.attbi.com/~pray59/projects/images/p904g.jpg

Copper Corner Braces and Marker Paddles added
http://home.attbi.com/~pray59/projects/images/p904j.jpg

[Tileguy]

Very Nice !! Yessireee,Verryy Nice!!

All i can say Robert is this
" if ya dont stop it you'll go Blind" graemlins/wink.gif

[pray59]

Well, I just want to update for those interested. The model did well in the contests, up against HO and O Scale models with full interiors, it took the blue ribbon and received a plaque.

What I was really concerned with was getting my required 87.5 points, and although the U25C I built 3 years ago won a blue ribbon, it only got 60 points, falling far short of counting towards a certificate. This time however, I did make the grade, scoring a full 107 points, which suprised many people, who were saying that's the first Z Scale model they remember ever making the points at the PCR.

The other Z caboose I built, which is the completed one in the picture above, I gave to Tom Knapp, who let me run it on his Nn3 railroad. This guy has had articles in many magazines over the years making the tiniest running models I have ever seen, which earned him Master Model Railroader #101. He really liked the caboose, and has encouraged me to look into Nn3 modeling too. Nn3 offers you the tiny Z Scale look of trains, but with the ease of N Scale detailing and scenery, and is quite intriguing. smile.gif

[BoxcabE50]

I was just about to post an inquiry on how your efforts were received. Your report sounds great!

Did you also display the N scale version?

:D

Boxcab E50

[pray59]

Actually, no I did not have an N Scale version ready. I had built one up real nice, but when I took it to the LHS last week, I was liberated of it. It's a good thing too, since I had found another photo which made the model even more accurate. I was able to get the endrails correct, which previously had a little modelers license taken due to lack of photos. It turns out there was no hanging chain opening above the coupler, but rather solid raild which bent down just to the right of the door, and continued to the ladder on the left. This allowed the tops of the brakewheels to be flush with the top of the right side before that bend down.

smile.gif

[Coaltrain]

Way to go graemlins/clappy.gif keep up the good work

[William Cowie]

Robert,

Incredible! graemlins/notworthy.gif graemlins/notworthy.gif graemlins/notworthy.gif Thanks for sharing this with us mere mortals. It inspires us wannabe kit-builders to see what CAN be done! smile.gif

How many more models do you need for your certification? Asked another way, how many treats do we still have in store for us? graemlins/wink.gif

William

[pray59]

I'm just starting... That is the first model I made that earned enough points to count. Now I only have 50 or so more to do. smile.gif

I just hope I can do it in my lifetime. hehe